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Showing posts with label supertuxkart. Show all posts
Showing posts with label supertuxkart. Show all posts

Wednesday, July 4, 2012

Open Source Game Summer Screen Shorts 2012 #1

Knights, a top-down multiplayer quest/fighting game, received some GUI enhancements.
Tales of Gydia, a Liberated Pixel Cup fantasy turn-based RPG that focuses on UGC, was started on SourceForge.net.
Unknown Horizons, a historical city-building and economy RTS, received some new citizen building graphics from a first-time contributor.
Black Dog, an extremely atmospheric HTML5, fully-FOSS helicopter mini-game, got its (unfinished) Android port released.
Linus Torvalds not only showed his annoyance with Nvidia but also his love towards open source games in a recent talk (goto 58m20s).
ctdabomb, an active community member, converted and license-clarified the Art Museum SuperTuxKart racing track over the time span of about one and a half months, after asking the community for support.
SuperTux, a cute platformer, needs help finishing an animated owl sprite. To the left, you can see the current placeholder graphics.
unrelated monster spawner animation
FLARE, a hack'n'slash RPG engine and game, requested translations via email, pull request or forum post.

Wednesday, May 23, 2012

OpenGOO and Using Inkscape or Blender for Editing Maps/Levels

Building bridges in OpenGOO


You may remember that in the first Humble Indie Bundle, World of Goo was not open-sourced. Well, there is an active open source clone called OpenGOO being developed. It uses OpenGL, Box2D and is GPLv3-licensed.

Basic layers of level creation in OpenGOO
A Shotgun Debugger level viewed in Inkscape
There are instructions available for creating levels. Inkscape is used for that purpose, just like in Shotgun Debugger! A method I would love to see being widely used in games that allow for user-generated content in general.

SuperTuxKart level editor (hint: it's Blender!)
Speaking of not-re-inventing-wheels: the team behind SuperTuxKart recently posted an article about using Blender as a level editor, rather than writing and maintaining an own content creation tool, which I highly recommend to all developers of 3D games with 'traditional' engines.

Sunday, February 19, 2012

Developer interview: SuperTuxKart team.

Hi folks,

My name is Artem (KroArtem in IRC) and I wanted to post an article here almost for a year. Nowadays I have an opportunity to do this. Let me introduce myself: I'm studying at St.Petersburg State University, Faculty of Applied Mathematics and Control Processes, trying to become a programmer and a mathematician :) In my spare time I like to test some linux games, report bugs, give feedback, translate them and so on. Actually this is the way I've met SuperTuxKart developers. Today I want to obtain an interview from them.

Firstly, let me remind you what SuperTuxKart is. SuperTuxKart is a kart racing game that features free software mascots, has a cartoony style, includes different game modes and supports multiplayer (split-screen). You can visit STK's site and receive some more information about the game.

SuperTuxKart's new track, Blackhill Mansion

Secondly, I want to name our beloved developers and contributors: Joerg �hiker� Henrichs, Marianne �Auria� Gagnon, Magne �Arthur_D� Djupvik and Jean-Manuel Clemen�on aka �samuncle�. Please note that there are some more contributors but unfortunately I didn't manage to contact them. I think 4 people would be enough for the interview, though :)

I've prepared some questions and sent them via emails and here are the results:

FG: Please say some words about yourself/your job.

Arthur: My name is Magne, and I am an avid fan of SuperTuxKart. I'm interested in computers, music, animated cartoons and of course games.

Auria: My name is Marianne, I work mostly as a developer for SuperTuxKart. I am going to complete my computer science studies at university in the coming months.

Hiker: I've studied computer science in Germany, and am now working as a consultant for the Australian Bureau of Meteorology. I help them using their supercomputer for their operational and research numerical weather and climate predictions.

Samuncle: I like drawing and hiking. On the professional side, I am currently studying telecommunications to become technician.


FG: Explain in a few words how and when did you join STK's team?

Arthur: Well, I had been playing the game's predecessor TuxKart as one of the few 3D games my computer could handle back in the day in Linux. Later my brother said a fork of the project had appeared in the repositories, so I went on to install STK 0.3. I was impressed by the changes, and decided I would try to follow the project's mailing list. Of course, I couldn't manage to keep quiet, so I engaged in discussion and asked questions, and got always nice, friendly answers back, which made me want to stay with the project and get involved where I could.

Auria: I liked kart games like Mario Kart. So many years ago I downloaded STK - version 0.3 I think. However this old version had major issues; so I decided I might as well do small improvements, like replace the then cylindrical lighthouse with something better, etc. And a few years later here I am, core developer :)

Hiker: I discovered TuxKart as part of a suse Linux installation, and soon found that a 'Game of the Month' had started intending to improve TuxKart. That project had basically been abandoned (due to some disagreements between the original developer and the GotM-team). A fork was created to save their work, but the project was dead. I basically picked up the project from there, fixed the bugs and performance issues, and did a first playable release of STK. Then I was hooked on ;)

Samuncle: Initially, I wanted to propose ideas that could help improve the graphics. I liked STK but I thought we could do better visually.


FG: Say what role do you have in the project? (Leader, package maintainer, etc)

Arthur: I mostly test and give feedback on the project, report bugs, write updates on our blog, and make some trivial changes now and then, mostly graphics related.

Auria: I am a core developer to the game itself, and occasionally work on 3D modelling. I am second only to our benevolent dictator Joerg :)

Hiker: I am one of the two project leaders.

Samuncle: I work on the graphics of the tracks. I build new tracks from start to end, or I improve existing tracks. I use mainly blender for the 3D, gimp for textures and mypaint for drawing.


FG: Why do you work on this project?

Arthur: Because I like the game, and because it's a very unique project in the world of Free software. It's an arcade racing game with only mild cartoon violence, and it has a very distinctive gameplay. Most other Free racing games are more realistic and doesn't have a cartoonish theme. Also because the developers are very nice people, and the community as a whole is good to be in.

Auria: I like kart games, I like programming, I like the STK team.

Hiker: Originally my main motivation was to give something back to the open source community by fixing the performance problems STK had after the GotM project. But then I got interested in the game, and still have some ideas I might want to implement once I have an engine with all features I need. Additionally I hope that STK might serve as a teaching tool as well, it would be easy for schools to pick up and perhaps use STK in their lessons.

Incidentally, the fact that it is like Mario Kart was never a point for working on STK - I had never played any kart game till two years after I started working on STK (and people kept on telling me: "It's like MK", so after a while I decided to have a look).

It also keeps me entertained on my way to work, since I mostly work on the train on my way to work :)

Samuncle: Because I would like supertuxkart to have nicer-looking graphics. Along the way, I also use this as an opportunity to learn blender and another tools. It's also fun to play a game you contribute to.


FG: Are you satisfied with existing development? Do you think STK needs more contributors/testers/artists?

Arthur: I am satisfied with the direction of the game, I only wish things would happen faster! But for that to happen, we need more people to help contribute. So if you have something you think would add to the game, please come forward with your skills, or just your ideas (though we get millions of those, and usually fall short on man/woman-power). Programmers and 3D artists are especially welcome, but as said everyone can get involved as much as they want to. And we're all a friendly bunch, so getting involved isn't hard. :)

Auria: We could certainly use with a few more developers and artists :) the networking feature, for instance, is often requested and help would be welcome in making it come

Hiker:r: Well, the team could certainly be bigger, with atm two code developers and about two regularly contributing artists many things take much longer than necessary, or need to be postponed till later.
But the team itself works quite well together, so I am quite happy about this.

Samuncle: I think a network mode is what STK lacks most, so if someone could work on this it could help get things moving forward.


FG: How do you see STK in the future?

Arthur: I see it as an even greater game, with more fun, more polish and a larger community, and also an online multiplayer community. In short, I think it can only get better from here. :)

Auria: As any open source project, it's very hard to see the future. Let me just say that I would like STK to grow with a solid set of nice-looking tracks, improved AI and better single player mode as well as multiplayer.

Hiker: By switching to a more modern graphics engine we have opened the way for much better looking tracks, and slowly we are replacing older tracks with newer ones. Support for networking will certainly give STK more appeal to a wider audience. By then I hope to find some time to implement more game modes to make STK a more unique and interesting game, and less of a 'copy' of other kart games.

Samuncle: Hmm, I don't really know ^^ I would like it to be more cohesive (not less fun though), that there is more unity (between tracks, most notably). I would not be against reducing the number of tracks to improve their quality (because maintaining a world takes time)


FG: What do you think is important, what do you like / don't like in stk's development/community/etc.

Arthur: The important thing is to have fun, and stay cool. We are blessed with very stable project leaders, who have been pushing the game forward for many years. So even though I'd sometimes wish development would be faster, it's important that people do things in a tempo they are comfortable with, and don't burn out. Also, there are more important things in life than STK, but I do say it has made mine a little richer. So if you like the game, feel free to register at our forums, join the mailing list and IRC and take part in the discussions. :)

Auria: It's important and very welcome to get help with testing, especially when betas or release candidates and released; translations are also very important. The less fun aspect is managing everyone's expectations, people have many ideas of what they would like us to code for STK but it would take 10 of us to do it all :)

Hiker: In contrast to commercial game design we have only limited influence on the 'style' of tracks, since especially the kart and track design is done by various artists, mostly following their own taste. We nevertheless try to maintain the vision where we want STK to be at. With the addon-server we luckily have now the option to publish karts and tracks that might not fit in the main game for everyone to download. It of course means that Auria and myself sometimes have to be the (hopefully) benevolent dictators, but I think that is very important in order to keep STK on track.

The most disappointing point is that we often get people interested in helping to develop STK, but they then disappear leaving a less than half finished mess of code behind. I guess many people overestimate their available time, or underestimate the complexity of STK.


Finally I want to say that we're waiting some new and interesting additions, like Overworld, a big track from where the player will start his journey, or... but hey, feel free to follow SuperTuxKart updates via forum, blog or mailing lists! :)

Wednesday, February 1, 2012

GGJ License, EGP Feb 2012, STK Overworld, FG Interview

GGJ 2012 Theme

Global Game Jam 2012 is over and you can find all the by-nc-sa-licensed games here. We talked to the organizers about allowing free (as in freedom etc.) licenses and got some positive replies, but in the end it was too short a notice.

We ask you now to write a short message to GGJ, asking for the inclusion of further licenses, for example a GPL+CC-BY-SA combination for GGJ 2013. Also feel free to discuss this in the comments.

If you participated in GGJ, we would like to encourage you to release your games under free licenses in addition to the required nc license.


EGP February 2012

Speaking of jams, the 7day-jam-during-one-month by Experimental Gameplay Project is "Infinite Worlds" for this month.


STK Overworld

As recently announced, one of the new features in SuperTuxKart 0.8 will be an overworld-connected challenge system.

Durk Talsma: AI programmer

Flight Gear's blog released a new interview. You can find the other interviews so far linked in this post.

Saturday, July 23, 2011

SuperTuxKart 0.7.2: Add-on manager release

SuperTuxKart now has an add-on/DLC/community-content manager, which allows you to download tracks and karts from inside the game, without having to move or unzip files. I am very excited about this feature, which hopefully will be a strong motivation for community members to create new content for the game.


Suzanne's kart

One example of the advantages of this feature: a few days after the release of 0.7.2 the amazing Suzanne (Blender's mascot) kart was finished. Instead of having to manually download and install it or wait for 0.7.3, players can simply get the kart in the add-on manager. [edit: unfortunately right now Suzanne is only in SVN and not yet in the add-on manager (to be fixed)]


Here's a video of some of the content you can get via the add-on manager:


In case you are on Linux or OS X, consider getting the 0.7.2a release, which should perform much better [info here].



Beastie



Two more content addition in this version are:


  • New Beastie Kart
  • New Snow Peak track by Samuncle

Sunday, July 3, 2011

Some random news from our forums etc

Yes, big summer hole here in FG... luckily we get at least some guest posts from Bart (aka the OpenGameArt founder).

So, maybe today we just make a small summery of recent news that popped up in our Freegamedev forums (boring for the forum regulars I know :p ):

First of all (as we mention that project way to little), find a release candidate of the latest SuperTuxKart version in this thread.

In our showcase forum you can also find a nice (but low-fi) turn based strategy game called Strategic Initiative, which is made by the same guy who was also behind the classic Empire (well I didn't know it before ;) ). Also don't miss the updates on The Legend of Edgar.

Back in the section of out hosted projects, the user Skorpio has been showcasing some nice Mechs for Linwarrior3D lately, which are now being integrated into the game:



At the Red Eclipse forums an interesting collaboration project to make a mod loosely based on Team Fortress (classic?) recently showed up, with the user John_III making a lot of progress on the first map (and a very recent small WIP by me too ;) ):



Oh and the work that is currently done to redesign the look of OpenDungeons as seen in this thread, is looking rather fantastic too.

In other words, don't miss the action in our forums (and on the FG planet), during this time of little blog updates ;)

Friday, April 15, 2011

STK 0.7.1, CC to OF, SaRII 2.2.0,jCRPG, CC TXT, OSM and TitA

  1. SuperTuxKart 0.7.1 released! [great changelog!]
  2. Former CubeCreate lead dev will now work on OctaForge (so far #octaforge chat is the only piece of infrastructure)
  3. Search and Rescue II has improved sound and uses OpenAL now
  4. jClassicRPG's developer wrote short-term goals for the project (also forum registration now works)
  5. Creative Commons licenses are now officially available in .txt format (for easy inclusion in Your Game Project)
  6. Adam Drew of Red Hat will webcast about Linux/Open Source music production April 20
  7. Steampunk MMO project Tempest in the Aether will have an OpenGameArt-featured art contest during Weekend of April 30th - a todo list will be released on April 20th

Friday, February 11, 2011

Ripping off Open-Source-Engine Games: Lugaru

Lugaru is a proprietary game. The Lugaru source code was released under GPL. The Lugaru game data was released under a "freely redistributed for non commercial purposes" licenseHere's an explanation by Wolfire but it's basically just like Quake, only that the Quake game data was never released for free and never with the engine code and that they used a zip file, not a repository.

Recently, scammers sold the game Lugaru on Apple's App Store. They had this to say:
"we have every legal right to market and sell the software"
"the license we were granted allows for non-exclusive redistribution of the source code or the compiled product, modified or unmodified, for a fee or free of charge."

Wolfire wrote a blog post when they found out about this and another one when the cloned product was finally taken down.

The implication, according to Wolfire:

"While released source code in no way makes it legal to sell someone else's game, it is apparently enough to make scammers think they could get away with it, and that may be enough to discourage other developers from risking it."

STK on ebay

SuperTuxKart is the project I first knew about is being sold by third parties although I can't find any discussions on that topi any more (see comments for info from their side). SuperTux' archives contain a bit of reading material about what problems they had.

ILLUSION MAGE!!! THIS IS NOT BLENDER!!

Blender is also having problems with scammers. (Thanks to Peragro Tempus for the info)

Quite a few foss software on ebay too. This seller seems to be specialized in selling foss games and apps while trying to hide their name. Assuming all they do is sell open source software for $6.65, then they earned $14,277.55 in at least 2147 sales since November 2009 (about $950/month). That'd be kind of lame.

Side note: I just found a Lugaru fork, which claims the animation data is CC-BY-SA'd, which according to file size (didn't do a diff check) is the original data. The original Lugaru repository's license file states no such thing.

I wonder though, would have Lugaru's incident have happened, if they did not put code and data in the same repository? What do you think? And do you know of more incidents of this kind?

Thursday, January 22, 2009

OverDose on Free Software


OverDose is pretty


What is OverDose? Edit: correct link


OverDose is a Multiplayer team objective based game with online and offline play. Two sides, Earths Confederate Marine Corps. and the evil alien Marauders, battle for control of locations on Earth. Based in a first person, the two conflicting teams must battle not only each other, but large open terrain areas. Every class has his own strong and weak points, but every class is a vital role to the game.


On a technical front, it uses a highly evolved Quake II iD tech 2 engine which renders better than Doom 3 iD tech 4, as evidenced by this video and that video. The gameplay sounds quite good too.



FlightGear


FlightGear 1.9.0 got released. The actual announcement is buried in the mailing list. (For those fortunate enough to have never experienced it, the Sourceforge list archives are about as user unfriendly as you'll find, so you should appreciate me having found it! This release is a major overhaul of the graphics code, FlightGear now makes use of the
OpenSceneGraph library, and work on this has been going on for 2 years, since well before the FlightGear 1.0 release. Some highlights include dynamically configurable 3D Clouds, wingmen AI, particle-based rain, read the announcement for more.


SuperTuxKart 0.6 is out, hot on the heels of 0.6rc1. Here's a video showing some STK gameplay and some of the new levels. Given the level of activity, I'm optimistic that we'll see STK 0.7 this year (prettier graphics, better features with Irrlicht replacing PLIB) and that it'll be really impressive. There's still some level design work to be done though - the new levels are significantly nicer looking compared to the old ones you, the contrast stands out to me in this video.




Generally pygame entries are a bit naff. There are, however, a few nuggets. Like this World-of-Goo-inspired sandbox, the Gauntlet-style zombiefest Plague-like (pygame entry) or this interesting looking RPG engine Dead Creatures Rising (pygame entry). Still, it really needs a rating system to sort out the wheat from the chaff because there is far too much chaff to wade through these days.


L-echo, an open source implementation of the popular game Echochrome, seems to be coming along nicely. Version 0.4.1 released recently. Here's a video of l-echo in action:




Did I mention Naev before? Doesn't seem like it. Anyhow, it's a 2D space RPG in the mould of Solar Winds (like anybody actually knew what that was, other than me). It looks nice, but the controls take a bit of getting used to. You'll need to have a longer attention span than me if you're going to be able...


I wonder if we'll see an executive order closing down Windows. It's like a virtual detention centre where open source [game] developers are subjected to unspeakable things when forced to support it. On another note, I got to OverDose via the Haiku website. Perhaps Haiku can be a future gaming platform? I wonder if that skinny guy with a funny name even knows what Haiku is?

Saturday, January 3, 2009

Happy Gnu Year

Well, it's belated, but better late than never. :-)



The Warzone 2100 team released version 2.1 of their continuation of the formerly-commercial RTS. The news link is broken for some reason. EDIT: And here is the fixed one. Well, the big 'hole' in WZ2100 has been the FMV that was in the original game, that comes in 2.2 I am told, but 2.1 is more stable and playable than ever (although I'm don't know the specific improvements over 2.0).



AssaultCube got a new website and a new release, version 1.0.2 which fixes a few glitches and brings some extra polish to the 1.0.x series of AC. Apparently Cube 2 (aka Sauerbraten) dev Eihrul has been backporting enhancements to AC, so looks much better than Cube 1, but I can't say for sure.



Speaking of Free FPS games, I thought this SuperTuxKart track, Sub-sea, being ported to Nexuiz was quite intriguing:





Speaking of SuperTuxKart, I can't remember if I mentioned or saw the 0.6rc1 release anywhere. By all accounts it's a massive improvement over 0.5 and the game is starting to realise a bit of it's potential. Version 0.7 will bring an overhaul of the graphics engine (port to Irrlicht from PLIB) and that plus all the new track development that is occuring, 2009 should be the year that STK becomes a showcase Free Software game. Still, the competition is getting tougher, but I hope that serves as motivation. :-)



Here's two questions for you, the readers, answers in comments please!



What was your favourite new project from 2008?



Mine was JCRPG - just from Word War Vi.



Which project do you look forward to new releases from this year?



For me, definitely Scourge (0.22 brings support for new model formats, which I think will make people pay more attention to it), with Vega Strike and UFO:AI releases also something I look forward to checking out.

Sunday, October 5, 2008

Hero of Allacrost 0.2.2, Teeworlds 0.4.3, GamePwned


Hero of Allacrost 0.2.2 has been released and now needs a new home! It is house-trained and can be picked up 24/7 from it's SourceForge shelter.



One can now enter buildings (in a pleasant no-transition way) and an editor is now included. I gave the editor a try.



My first thought was: "What a waste of energy! Why did they not incorporate Tiled, as for example Battle Tanks did?" But then I remembered that my last encounter with the general purpose Java editor. It showed me that instead of being able to completely rely on Tiled, a team would have to create an extra tool for tasks that go beyond map editing. At least a team of non-Java programmers (Allacrost is in C++ and Lua).



Allacrost's editor will go beyond tiles. When it's finished, it will also be a character, skills and inventory editor and will support integration of music/sounds.




Greg Cannon blocking the view on STK ;)

GamePwned is a freeware and open source games blog. A video-review of VDrift and SuperTuxKart was recently posted on it. (The third one, HoverRace, has a weird license). Reminds me of the time when freeware titles were often mentioned on Free Gamer. Mid-1980s IIRC.



I wonder if Sauce The Game is ever going to happen again...



Teewars Teeworlds 0.4.3


Teewars Teeworlds 0.4.3 is out and some of the changes indicate a wide player base: auto team balance and anti-spam fixes. I gave the game a try a minute ago and the fun and prettiness and cuteness are there! Unfortunately I'm no fan of grapple hooks.



Teewars' Teeworlds' license is a bugger though. Instead of "please don't sell this game" is says "you have to include a hello world app if you want to sell this game".



On the other hand, ladies and gentlemen: the bikeshed.

Wednesday, September 17, 2008

English transcription of "Hobby Game Development" (neues, 3sat)

Narrator: On first sight it looks like the commercial online role-playing game Ultima Online. On the second the viewer might spot one or another change. Maybe even something special, which doesn't even exist in the original game.



This game is named Iris 2, built on top of Ultima Online and is freely available online. It was developed by hobby game developers.



It's their hobby, just like others knit pullovers in the evening. Florian Fischer and Iwan Gabovitch develop games in their free time. What's the thrill of developing games on your own?



Florian: It's just fun to be creative and to express this creativity. Games are super for that.



Iwan: First I stopped playing commercial games and started searching for new, interesting games. I found many freeware games and then came across the open source scene, where also games get developed, where
it's easy to contribute, without having to get involved too much.



Narrator: Most developers are not professionals but they have lots of potential and ideas, which they want to share and to put into practice with others.



Free software is being used, which is available gratis online. For example to create graphics of special effects.



For the 3D visualization, Florian works with OGRE. OGRE is open source software, which can be copied, distributed and used without limitation. Working with free software excites the developers.



Florian: Others can download our code, can compile games on their own, can try own things and can improve the programm. The principle of open source is nice: I give something and, as I use open source tools, I also take something.



Narrator: Usually each developer works seperately on his computer but once a year the hobby developers meet live.



The event Dusmania was initiated so that developers could exchange experience, but of course there has to be some actual development too. In nine hours, they had to develop a game. The group of Iwan and Florian created "lalalove", a game in which sounds have to be generated to make people happy.



Iwan was responsible for the graphics in lalalove. First he sketches the images, before layouting them on the PC.



Somebody who invests so much love and free time into game development could work for commercial game producers, but this doesn't interest the community.



Florian: We don't have to follow any rules, we can implement every idea and we can throw it out too. We can be as creative as we want to be and this is fun. We can create prototypes of games and then say "we like this game principle" or maybe someone else in the community likes it and develops it thurther. I find this freedom fascinating.



Narrator: One who wants to experience developing games on his/her own, finds a lot of tips on the web. Beginners are also able to get into the scene easily.



Free Gamer is an online community for hobby game developers. It consists of a blog, a forum and a wiki. The forum is for discussions. On the wiki articles can be published and freely edited. For example there is a list of open source 3D game engines, which everyone can use for his own games.



If someone prefers to play rather than develop, won't be disappointed. Games of all sorts are available on the net. For example the cute SuperTuxKart. Instead of Mario, a penguin drives against the tree.



End of transcription. Please not that all text by the Narrator is not freely licensed and it's copyright is owned by 3sat.



Please note that simplification and generalization are unavoidable if you want to squeeze a topic into four minutes. There are of course people who are interested in commercial application of open source and there are open source game developers who would like to work in non-free, commercial game developer companies.

Monday, September 15, 2008

qubodup and SiENcE on German TV

Left to right: SiENcE, qubodup


Update: The video can be viewed on YouTube (the part about us starts at 18 seconds).



Hello friends.



Today's post is just a quickie: I (involved in some stuff) and SiENcE (involved in both Iris 2 and OGRE) were interviewed by Cornelia Rettig for 3sat's neues (in German). We talk about open source and hobby game development, visit the Free Gamer blog, the FreeGameDev forum and wiki and show Iris 2, OGRE and SuperTuxKart.



I am ever so excited.



If I understand correctly, you are able to watch the full show inside a time frame of two weeks. Here's a direct link to a asx (windows media player steam file, Kaffeine was able to play it for me.)

You can read these news in the Iris 2 blog too! Also there's an article on 3sat's homepage and you can read an auto-translated English version (using google tools).



In case there's interest in an English version of a transcript of the show, I guess I could do it...... just tell so via the contact link at the top of the blog or via posting a comment in the blog or in the forum. A longer post by me is coming up soon by the way. :)



One step closer to world domi... ah, that joke is getting weak. :p